I’m sure that since the pandemic, most of us have joined different Telegram groups. Telegram appears to be a place where we can share information freely. I’m in a few myself where discussions are had about truth, conspiracies, and so forth.
However, within these groups, there are various perspectives on truths, paths to freedom, and many more. This is probably why I wrote my articles “Lies Within the Truth Community” and “The Multiple Paths to Freedom”.
This Telegram phenomenon probably also contributed to my “Controlled Opposition” article on gatekeepers.
So many people searching for the truth think anything that is anti-mainstream media is the truth (e.g., RFK and Ivermectin).
Long story short, people are looking for alternative views of reality and Telegram provides a space for these platforms to be had.
In one such group, the discussion was regarding flat earth vs round earth. Around this time, I had come across information on the geocentric model and discovered that the geocentric model (the earth at the center of the universe) was actually a well-known model. Think of it as similar to the vaccine vs natural immunity debate.
Author’s Note: Tycho Brahe, the teacher of Johannes Kepler, was an advocate of the geocentric model, and unfortunately met an “untimely” death, leaving all his data supporting the geocentric model to his heliocentric student Kepler (nothing to see here at all).
I then made the argument that the geocentric model and the heliocentric model were ultimately rooted from a spiritual perspective.
Geocentric: the biblical perspective that God created the earth beneath him — at the center — and everything else revolves around the earth, and
Heliocentric: the Sun taking the center of the universe. I went one step further to equate Heliocentricity with Sun Worship — or rather Baal worship.
It had been a while since I had this discussion and someone who was recently in the Telegram group saw the discussion and reached out for questions as to why I made that rationale. To ensure I came with facts, I decided to use the most efficient - maybe not the best non-biased tool - GPT4 to help provide rationale for my stance.
Below is the conversation I had with GPT4. I would like your conclusions to see if our current solar system model could indeed be looked at as sun worship, also known as Baal worship.
Chat With GPT4
Me: A lot of times, we view “worship” in the religious sense, but could it be that worship is anything that gets our time, attention, and reverence?
GPT4: Absolutely, the term “worship” can indeed be broadened beyond its religious connotations. While traditionally associated with reverence and adoration for a deity or deities in various religious practices, the concept of worship can extend to anything that one devotes significant time, attention, and reverence to.
In a more general sense, people can “worship” a wide range of things, from ideas and principles to hobbies and interests. For example, someone might be said to “worship” a particular sport if they dedicate a lot of their time and energy to following it, or a musician might “worship” their craft, spending countless hours practicing and perfecting their skills.
However, it’s important to note that the use of the term “worship” in these contexts is often metaphorical and doesn’t carry the same spiritual or religious implications as it does in its traditional usage. It’s more about expressing the idea of intense dedication or passion.
So yes, in a broader sense, worship can be seen as anything that gets our time, attention, and reverence. But remember, balance is key in all things. It’s healthy to have passions and interests, but they shouldn’t overshadow other important aspects of life.
Me: Can you tell me more about the worship of the sun god Baal?
GPT4: Baal was a god worshipped in many ancient Middle Eastern communities, especially among the Canaanites1. The term Baal, which means “owner” or “lord” in Semitic languages, was used to designate the universal god of fertility1. In this capacity, his title was Prince, Lord of the Earth1. He was also called the Lord of Rain and Dew, the two forms of moisture that were indispensable for fertile soil in Canaan1.
Baal was particularly associated with the storm and fertility god Hadad and his local manifestations2. He was often depicted holding a lightning bolt3. The Canaanites worshiped Baal as the sun god and as the storm god3. They also worshiped him as a fertility god who provided children3.
In the mythology of Canaan, Baal, the god of life and fertility, was locked in mortal combat with Mot, the god of death and sterility1. If Baal triumphed, a seven-year cycle of fertility would ensue; but, if he were vanquished by Mot, seven years of drought and famine would ensue1.
Baal was not exclusively a fertility god. He was also king of the gods, and, to achieve that position, he was portrayed as seizing the divine kingship from Yamm, the sea god1. The myths also tell of Baal’s struggle to obtain a palace comparable in grandeur to those of other gods1.
Please note that the worship of Baal varied across different regions and periods, and the information available is based on archaeological findings and ancient texts12. For a more comprehensive understanding, it’s recommended to refer to scholarly resources or consult an expert in ancient Middle Eastern religions.
Me: The idea of heliocentricity is that the sun is in the middle, while the geocentric model, the earth is in the middle. based on our definition of worship (time, attention and reverence), could we make the argument that the heliocentric model could be seen as sun worship since it places the sun at the center of the universe?
GPT4: That’s an interesting perspective. However, it’s important to clarify that the heliocentric model is a scientific model, not a form of worship. It places the sun at the center of the solar system because that’s where the evidence points, not because of any inherent reverence for the sun.
The heliocentric model was proposed by Nicolaus Copernicus in the 16th century as a more accurate way to explain the movements of the planets in the sky. It replaced the geocentric model, which had been the prevailing scientific consensus for centuries but had difficulty explaining certain astronomical observations.
In the context of our discussion about worship, remember that worship involves not just attention, but also reverence and devotion. While the sun certainly receives a lot of attention in the heliocentric model, this attention is due to its physical properties and the role it plays in our solar system, not because of any spiritual or religious reverence.
So, while it’s true that the heliocentric model gives the sun a central role in the organization of our solar system, it wouldn’t be accurate to equate this with sun worship. The sun is ‘worshipped’ in this model in the same way that a key piece of evidence is ‘worshipped’ in a detective’s case - it’s given a lot of attention because it’s crucial to understanding the bigger picture.
Me: But from a conceptual perspective, not scientific, could one make that argument?
GPT4: From a purely conceptual perspective, one could argue that anything which occupies a central role in our thoughts or activities could be seen as being ‘worshipped’ in a metaphorical sense. In this context, if we consider the sun’s central role in the heliocentric model, one could metaphorically say that it is being ‘worshipped’.
However, it’s important to note that this is a metaphorical interpretation and doesn’t imply any form of religious or spiritual reverence. The sun in the heliocentric model is ‘central’ because of its physical properties and the role it plays in our solar system, not because of any inherent value or worthiness of reverence.
So, while it’s possible to draw such a metaphorical parallel, it’s crucial to remember that in the scientific context, the ‘central’ position of the sun in the heliocentric model is a matter of physical fact, not of value judgment or reverence. The sun is at the center because that’s where the evidence points, not because it is being ‘worshipped’ in any traditional or religious sense of the word.
In conclusion, while such a conceptual argument could be made, it’s important to clearly distinguish between the metaphorical use of the term ’
Me: Based on our definition of worship, would it be fair to say that science worships “scientific fact?”
GPT4: That’s an interesting perspective. If we’re using the term “worship” to mean giving time, attention, and reverence, then one could argue that science does “worship” scientific facts in a metaphorical sense.
Science is a systematic and logical approach to discovering how things in the universe work. It involves observing the natural world, formulating hypotheses, conducting experiments, and analyzing the results. In this process, a significant amount of time and attention is given to understanding and interpreting scientific facts.
However, it’s important to note that the reverence given to scientific facts is not the same as religious or spiritual reverence. In science, facts are revered because they are evidence-based, verifiable, and can help us understand and predict natural phenomena. They are not revered for their own sake, but for their utility in helping us make sense of the world.
So, while it’s true that science gives a lot of time and attention to scientific facts, it’s crucial to remember that this is done in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, not in the sense of religious or spiritual worship.
Me: Well is worship from the religious perspective done in the purist of knowing and understanding God more?
GPT4: Yes, in many religious traditions, worship is indeed seen as a way to seek a deeper understanding of and connection with God or the divine.
Worship practices, such as prayer, meditation, reading and contemplating sacred texts, singing hymns, participating in religious rituals, and doing good deeds, are often designed to help individuals feel closer to their deity or deities, understand their teachings more deeply, and integrate these teachings into their daily lives.
In this sense, the act of worship can be seen as a journey or process of seeking, learning, and growing in one’s spiritual life. It’s about cultivating a relationship with the divine, understanding the nature of the divine, and aligning one’s life with the values and teachings of their faith.
So, while the forms and practices of worship can vary widely among different religions, at their core, they often share this common goal of seeking a deeper understanding of and connection with the divine.
Me: So then worship in the sense of the time and attention, but also knowledge and understanding, can be applied religiously, but also scientifically as well as science is dedicated to knowledge and understanding.
GPT4: Absolutely, you’ve made a very insightful point. In both religious and scientific contexts, the pursuit of knowledge and understanding is a central theme.
In religion, worship often involves seeking a deeper understanding of God or the divine, and aligning one’s life with the values and teachings of their faith. This often involves dedicating time and attention to practices such as prayer, meditation, and studying sacred texts.
Similarly, in science, a significant amount of time and attention is dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. Scientists observe the natural world, formulate hypotheses, conduct experiments, and analyze the results in order to understand how things in the universe work.
So, while the objects of focus — God in the case of religion, and the natural world in the case of science — are different, the underlying process of dedicating time and attention in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding is a common theme.
However, it’s important to note that the term “worship” is typically associated with a sense of reverence or adoration, which may not be applicable in the context of science. Scientists seek to understand the world based on evidence and reason, and while they may have a deep respect for the natural world and the laws that govern it, this is not the same as the reverence or adoration typically associated with worship in a religious context.
In conclusion, while there are parallels between religious worship and the practice of science in terms of the dedication of time and attention in the pursuit of knowledge, the contexts and implications are quite different. It’s a fascinating comparison to consider!
Me: So to conclude, i could make the argument that worship of the heliocentric model is worship and understanding of the sun at the center of the universe, which could also be tied to the worship of the sun god Baal... in a sense, correct?
GPT4: In a metaphorical or symbolic sense, one could draw parallels between the central role of the sun in the heliocentric model and the worship of the sun god Baal. Both involve a focus on the sun and its importance.
However, it’s crucial to remember that these are very different contexts. The heliocentric model is a scientific understanding of the physical universe, where the sun’s central position is due to its gravitational influence, not any inherent reverence or worship. On the other hand, the worship of Baal as a sun god involves religious beliefs, rituals, and a spiritual understanding of the world.
So while there might be a superficial similarity in the ‘central’ role of the sun in both cases, the reasons for this centrality and the ways in which it is understood and interpreted are very different in science and religion. It’s an interesting comparison to make, but one should be careful not to conflate the two.
In conclusion, while you could make the argument, it’s important to clarify that the ‘worship’ of the sun in the heliocentric model is metaphorical and based on its physical properties, not a religious or spiritual reverence as in the worship of the sun god Baal.
Me: And a scientific understanding can be seen as worship in a sense, right?
GPT4: In a metaphorical sense, one could argue that the pursuit of scientific understanding involves elements similar to worship, such as dedication, reverence for truth and facts, and a significant investment of time and attention.
Scientists dedicate their lives to the pursuit of knowledge, spend countless hours conducting research and experiments, and hold a deep respect for the principles of logic, evidence, and rational thinking. In this sense, one could metaphorically describe this commitment and reverence for scientific truth as a form of ‘worship’.
However, it’s important to note that this is a metaphorical interpretation. The term ‘worship’ traditionally implies religious or spiritual reverence, which is different from the respect for evidence and truth in science. While both involve dedication and reverence, the nature of this dedication and the object of this reverence are fundamentally different in science and religion.
So, while there are parallels, it’s crucial to remember that science and worship, in the traditional sense, are different in their goals, methods, and underlying philosophies. It’s an interesting comparison to consider, but one should be careful not to conflate the two.
GPT4 says not to conflate the two. What do you think?
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In Australia aboriginal culture, the sun is feminine and the moon is masculine. The sun, Yi, is reliable, life giving, life sustaining, source of light and warmth. Generous. Source of love. The moon, bahloo, is not so reliable, leaves for weeks, sometimes lights up the dark, sometimes disappears leaving everyone in the dark(occult presence). A male sun is a perversion and inversion of nature and the usurpation of the devine feminine. Any cult or culture that makes the sun masculine is satanic.
Yahweh (AKA God) created the sun, so if you appreciate His creation you are not worshipping Baal. As for the sun being in the center of the universe, that is simply just fact.